tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post331132079727145122..comments2024-03-27T05:23:48.855-04:00Comments on Krugman-in-Wonderland: Save us from space alien economics!William L. Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-41821485331828445732012-01-28T06:32:03.253-05:002012-01-28T06:32:03.253-05:00And come to think of it, all those war surplus DC3...And come to think of it, all those war surplus DC3 planes, and jeeps, and trucks where a great economic advantage to the US after the war, and maybe even the Victory ships. We didn't,t throw everything away. After the war we grew and prospered and built the interstate freeways, another massive economic boost, while paying off the war debt of 120 percent of GDP.macromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142304372187307154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-66627947563109579532012-01-28T06:18:36.173-05:002012-01-28T06:18:36.173-05:00WWII was a time of deprivation is not the point. T...WWII was a time of deprivation is not the point. The point is that output was vastly greater than during the depression. (and the previosly un employed probaly were a lot better off despite the rich being worse off than before)Deprivation came about because we threw most of the output away and built planes and ships that were not good for much except throwing output away.<br /><br />If we could think of a better reason to use idle resources it would be better. The Apollo program wasn't too bad, and not a time of depravation, and come to think of it there were many, many, many spinoffs in technological advance from <br />war spending. Just like moon program spending. Via newt!macromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142304372187307154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-41647890516638043972011-08-18T16:16:55.767-04:002011-08-18T16:16:55.767-04:00MF has me energized.
And you energize me. When I...<i>MF has me energized.</i><br /><br />And you energize me. When I feel like not responding to LK's nonsense, you tend to be there to refute his nonsense.Major_Freedomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-59607566408017199082011-08-17T23:56:12.343-04:002011-08-17T23:56:12.343-04:00MF has me energized.
Murray Rothbard on the evil ...MF has me energized.<br /><br />Murray Rothbard on the evil "social democracy":<br /><br /><em>When I was growing up, I found that the main argument against laissez-faire, and for socialism, was that socialism and communism were inevitable: "You can't turn back the clock!" they chanted, "you can't turn back the clock." But the clock of the once-mighty Soviet Union, the clock of Marxism-Leninism, a creed that once mastered half the world, is not only turned back but lies dead and broken forever. But we must not rest content with this victory. For though Marxism-Bolshevism is gone forever, there still remains, plaguing us everywhere, its evil cousin: call it "soft Marxism," "Marxism-Humanism," "Marxism-Bernsteinism," "Marxism-Trotskyism," "Marxism-Freudianism," well, let's just call it "Menshevism," or "social democracy."<br /><br />Social democracy is still here in all its variants, defining our entire respectable political spectrum, from advanced victimology and feminism on the Left over to neoconservatism on the Right. We are now trapped, in America, inside a Menshevik fantasy, with the narrow bounds of respectable debate set for us by various brands of Marxists. It is now our task, the task of the resurgent right, of the paleo movement, to break those bonds, to finish the job, to finish off Marxism forever.<br /><br />One of the authors of the Daniel Bell volume says, in horror and astonishment, that the radical right intends to repeal the 20th century. Heaven forfend! Who would want to repeal the 20th century, the century of horror, the century of collectivism, the century of mass destruction and genocide, who would want to repeal that! Well, we propose to do just that.<br /><br />With the inspiration of the death of the Soviet Union before us, we now know that it can be done. We shall break the clock of social democracy. We shall break the clock of the Great Society. We shall break the clock of the welfare state. We shall break the clock of the New Deal. We shall break the clock of Woodrow Wilson's New Freedom and perpetual war. We shall repeal the 20th century.<br /><br />One of the most inspiring and wonderful sights of our time was to see the peoples of the Soviet Union rising up last year to tear down in their fury the statues of Lenin, to obliterate the Leninist legacy. We, too, shall tear down all the statues of Franklin D. Roosevelt, of Harry Truman, of Woodrow Wilson, melt them down and beat them into plowshares and pruning hooks, and usher in a 21st century of peace, freedom, and prosperity.</em><br /><br />http://mises.org/daily/3931Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-1983475197852465192011-08-17T21:12:20.661-04:002011-08-17T21:12:20.661-04:00Lord Keynes: the god of failure.Lord Keynes: the god of failure.fraud-smashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-67603004654123643592011-08-17T19:04:35.391-04:002011-08-17T19:04:35.391-04:00I think we can all agree there is great imbalance ...I think we can all agree there is great imbalance and inequality in the economy today. This imbalance and inequality led to the use of excessive debt to sustain consumption which has almost reached its limit. The Keynesians want to restart growth by stimulus and loose monetary policy, and there is some empirical evidence that they could spark some growth. However, without addressing the imbalance in the system, this growth always led to greater crisis. History has told us once growth resumes, everybody gets complacent and thinks everything is now OK and clear sailing (witness the public sentiment during the Dot.com and Housing bubbles). As a result, nothing is done to address the imbalance, as anything to that effect will harm growth. This process of kicking the can down the road and feeling good about yourself inevitably will lead to a major collapse (Great Depression + World War II), after which things can start over again. The Austrians are just saying we need to take the medicine now, but what is the medicine? Is there medicine that doesn't cause some pain? Is the solution to do nothing let the existing system collapse on its own weight? Do we just let people figure out their own way of surviving the storm without government assistance? We don't have any convincing answers, so the easy way out is to kick to can further down the road until we reach the cliff....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-39872234730583889292011-08-17T17:39:02.182-04:002011-08-17T17:39:02.182-04:00LK:
The usual laughable inability to define depre...LK:<br /><br /><i>The usual laughable inability to define depression and stick with it in a consistent definition.</i><br /><br />You fallaciously claimed that the German depression under Bruning was a "long depression", perhaps worse than the American depression.<br /><br />That claim is false. A 2 year term as chancellor cannot make one preside over a "long depression." You just arbitrarily defined it to be long as a rhetorical flourish.<br /><br /><i>If "depression" is just defined as a period of high unemployment (by ignoring other factors like whether real GDP/GNP was falling or rising, or whether unemployment was actually falling), then most of the 19th century was a depression.</i><br /><br />Then so was the 20th, and the 21st.<br /><br /><i>Even in your lazy, stupid sense, the era of classic Keynesianism (1945-1973) eliminate depressions.</i><br /><br />The era of Keynesianism is 1933-present.<br /><br />What you call "classic Keynesianism" is really just the time period in between the Great Depression and Keynesian created stagflation of the 1970s. Nice cherry picking.<br /><br />By that logic, the "classic period of Austrianism" was in 1946, when the government decreased spending and taxes, and productivity skyrocketed.Major_Freedomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-47391324530069452962011-08-17T16:53:47.161-04:002011-08-17T16:53:47.161-04:00Marcus, thats because LK thinks the econonmy is a ...Marcus, thats because LK thinks the econonmy is a lab experiment. "Yeah I know the patient died, but we got some really cool data to cite for our paper".Mike Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-56289199692957655652011-08-17T16:35:04.276-04:002011-08-17T16:35:04.276-04:00If "depression" is just defined as a per...<i>If "depression" is just defined as a period of high unemployment (by ignoring other factors like whether real GDP/GNP was falling or rising, or whether unemployment was actually falling)</i><br /><br />Yeah, who cares if people are unemployed, can't find jobs and life sucks? GDP is "growing", so everybody is certainly happy! Nice!João Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08679910497915175200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-20595669610809987492011-08-17T13:08:01.799-04:002011-08-17T13:08:01.799-04:00Even in your lazy, stupid sense, the era of classi...<i>Even in your lazy, stupid sense, the era of classic Keynesianism (1945-1973) eliminate depressions.</i><br /><br />And you used the same logic to prove that Canada's unemployment is low because of Keynesianism.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-14803637286709584482011-08-17T13:01:13.337-04:002011-08-17T13:01:13.337-04:00He did not, contrary to your idiocy, preside over ...<i>He did not, contrary to your idiocy, preside over a longer depression than the US. The US depression lasted way longer than 2 years.</i><br /><br />The usual laughable inability to define depression and stick with it in a consistent definition.<br /><br />If "depression" is just defined as a period of high unemployment (by ignoring other factors like whether real GDP/GNP was falling or rising, or whether unemployment was actually falling), then most of the 19th century was a depression.<br /><br />Even in your lazy, stupid sense, the era of classic Keynesianism (1945-1973) eliminate depressions.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-12737956189321521782011-08-17T12:53:00.178-04:002011-08-17T12:53:00.178-04:00LK:
But then Bruning imposed his deflationary pol...LK:<br /><br /><i>But then Bruning imposed his deflationary policy by presidential emergency decree</i><br /><br />He raised taxes, so his actions were not Austrian.<br /><br />Then he was gone after only two years. He did not, contrary to your idiocy, preside over a longer depression than the US. The US depression lasted way longer than 2 years.Major_Freedomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-28385608352636805952011-08-17T12:05:10.241-04:002011-08-17T12:05:10.241-04:00Krugman notes that Austrians have acquired a real ...Krugman notes that Austrians have acquired a real and really bad influence in current policy debates.<br /><br /><em>In a way, I really should not spend time debating the Modern Monetary Theory guys. They’re on my side in current policy debates, and it’s unlikely that they’ll ever have the kind of <b>real — and really bad — influence that the Austrians have lately acquired</b>. But I really don’t feel like getting right back to textbook revision, so here’s another shot.</em><br /><br />So, shouldn’t the media examine and, if the Austrians are so wrong, refute Austrian theory? What is the justification for avoiding it at all costs? <br /><br />My comment:<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/3bacztaBob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-60678782488075993452011-08-17T11:52:16.526-04:002011-08-17T11:52:16.526-04:00"How does it feel to make a career of critici..."How does it feel to make a career of criticizing someone when he doesn't even acknowledges you exist?"<br /><br />How does it feel to lack the basic faculty to understand the difference between a casual blog and a profession, and to be unable to reason the usefulness of logical debate?Scott Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-20837655130581125182011-08-17T11:31:54.376-04:002011-08-17T11:31:54.376-04:00The irony is that Lord Keynes comes across as more...The irony is that Lord Keynes comes across as more extreme, in my opinion, than anyone else on this site - he is almost religious in his faith to one theory and not being able to make an allowance for an alternative or deviation from the script. The theory he puts forth can seemingly explain it all. Now, I don't consider myself a devotee of a single "faith", but the Austrian perspective makes the most sense and captures more of what I see going on. Nevertheless, I concede that no one has gotten it all right.<br /><br />And, by the way, I think Dennis does a better job of explaining what's going on in Canada...LK apparently must agree since he hasn't tried to refute it again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-37379588576311391412011-08-17T11:31:22.483-04:002011-08-17T11:31:22.483-04:00How does it feel to make a career of criticizing s...How does it feel to make a career of criticizing someone when he doesn't even acknowledges you exist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-51039022232679408232011-08-17T10:01:26.153-04:002011-08-17T10:01:26.153-04:00In no way was Bruning carrying out Austrian policy...In no way was Bruning carrying out Austrian policy. He bailed out failing industries, imposed price and wage controls, and raised taxes. He carried out interventionist policies similar to Hoover's and those of other countries during the time. The reason the recession of '29 transformed into a horrific depression was the unprecedented economic interventions employed in all countries during that time -- bailing out businesses, raising tariffs, raising taxes, inflating (in some cases), imposing price and wage controls, burdening businesses with new regulations, and expanding the welfare state. In the case of the European countries, unemployment persisted primarily because wages were not allowed to fall to natural levels because of special government-granted privileges to unions. Yes, according to the current "progressive" view, the governments of the time did not do enough, but these progressives would not have been satisfied unless a total Stalinist or Hitlerian state had been imposed -- as illustrated by Lord Keynes' implicit praise for Hitler's economic policies. Of course, Hitler did end the depression, but he did so by transforming the previously mixed economy into a totalitarian socialist slave state. Even then, the effectiveness of Hitler's economic policies has been tremendously overblown, as illustrated by Adam Tooze's book The Wages of Destruction: The Rise and Fall of the Nazi Economy.Nathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-21454339037799795312011-08-17T08:34:57.333-04:002011-08-17T08:34:57.333-04:00Why it's a waste of time to debate LK on his a...Why it's a waste of time to debate LK on his anecdotes:<br /><br />1. Keynesian-type policies will probably induce economic activity in the short run, however unsustainable.<br /><br />2. Ending those policies will invariably cause liquidation, unemployment and pain in the short run.<br /><br />We know this already. But without #1, we would never be in the position to need #2.Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-76114885027772218912011-08-17T08:24:58.150-04:002011-08-17T08:24:58.150-04:00Oh, the tragedy. Money supply collapsing after an ...Oh, the tragedy. Money supply collapsing after an unimaginable expansion. That's horrible! Obviously, Weimar Germany's problems really began because they didn't start using scientific notation in their money:<br /> - How much for the water?<br /> - 2,45 x 10²³<br /> - Wow, it was 2,4 x 10²¹ yesterday!João Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08679910497915175200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-12942522850830052122011-08-17T06:52:32.698-04:002011-08-17T06:52:32.698-04:00War works out great as long as it isn't your c...War works out great as long as it isn't your country's industry that gets blown to hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-7479121355003937792011-08-17T04:29:35.579-04:002011-08-17T04:29:35.579-04:00"Bruning tried austerity, but not only was hi...<i>"Bruning tried austerity, but not only was his plan overruled within a month"</i><br /><br />But then Bruning imposed his deflationary policy by presidential emergency decree:<br /><br /><i>"The Reichstag rejected his measures within a month. President Hindenburg, already bent on reducing the influence of the Reichstag, saw this event as the "failure of parliament" and with Brüning's consent called for new elections. These elections cost the parties of the grand coalition their majority and brought gains to both Communists and National Socialists. This left Brüning without any hope of reforging a party coalition and forced him to base his administration on the presidential emergency decree ("Notverordnung") of Article 48 of the Constitution, circumventing parliament and the informal toleration of this practice by the parties. Brüning coined the term "authoritative (or authoritarian) democracy" to describe this form of government based the cooperation of the president and parliament."</i><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Br%C3%BCning#The_Br.C3.BCning_administration_and_the_Reichstag_partiesLord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-82382324861073874392011-08-16T22:18:42.050-04:002011-08-16T22:18:42.050-04:00I think I've mentioned it before... the London...I think I've mentioned it before... the London riots represent a real-life experiment of the "Broken Window" scenario. They now have plenty of broken windows in London, plenty of additional money going to pay police overtime, hire more public servants to "fix" the problem, etc. Most likely they will have more riots as well before this is all over.<br /><br />The Keynesian logic is that riots should be good for the London economy, the Austrian prediction is that riots should damage the economy. We merely observe the outcome and there is your answer.Telhttp://lnx-bsp.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-34350242197180291712011-08-16T18:08:46.697-04:002011-08-16T18:08:46.697-04:00Typical Austrian nonsense.
Seriously, you want to...<i>Typical Austrian nonsense.</i><br /><br />Seriously, you want to talk about what is and is not nonsense when your Jim Jones is talking about recreating Nixon's plot from the Watchmen? <br /><br />At least the Japanese knew when they were defeated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-1908012426292783402011-08-16T18:03:38.595-04:002011-08-16T18:03:38.595-04:00Death and destruction were not the only means of w...Death and destruction were not the only means of wasted productivity that occurred during WW2. My conscripted grand pappy spent the vast majority of his time during that war playing cards and mopping a deck while being transported around the Pacific on a battleship at the whim of clueless Admirals while his farm back home went fallow for three growing seasons. He thought it was a waste of time for everyone involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-12858212240889623682011-08-16T17:36:04.943-04:002011-08-16T17:36:04.943-04:00B.S.
(1) the money supply collapsed by 25% from 1...<i>B.S.</i><br /><br /><i>(1) the money supply collapsed by 25% from 1930-1932 in Weimar Germany</i><br /><br />By the time he left, monetary inflation was already well on its way upward.Major_Freedomnoreply@blogger.com