tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post8189641899657336574..comments2024-03-12T08:15:56.379-04:00Comments on Krugman-in-Wonderland: Keynesianism: The (near) 80-year-old fallacyWilliam L. Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-11559937352955519202012-02-20T06:41:00.417-05:002012-02-20T06:41:00.417-05:00Thinking about that census information. The Britis...Thinking about that census information. The British government used patent information stored in the London patent office to get the details of Germany anti-ship mines and come up with counter measures. Does this mean Government enforced patents are a good thing or a bad thing? I suspect Google maps/google earth could be used for good or evil purposes and would have helped Sherman as well. What should we do about that?macromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142304372187307154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-51206809571995773272012-02-20T06:10:28.171-05:002012-02-20T06:10:28.171-05:00t seems that at least 75% of the time when I check...t seems that at least 75% of the time when I check to see if Krugman actually said what Anderson said he said, I find he didn't. I don't think Anderson or I have a reading comprehension problem, so my guess is that Anderson thinks he can read Krugman's mind and so changes what Krugman actually says into what he "knows" Krugman really meant. Nowhere in Krugman's piece under discussion did he say the law of scarcity or opportunity cost was a fallacy. In fact Krugman did not mention the fallacies at all, a bad piece of writing by Krugman. The correct response is to ignore it, not claim he said something specific (or at least tell people you are guessing what he meant). I can guess also; I guess Krugman was referring to Say's Law at least as a fallacy; but I can't claim to know this.macromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142304372187307154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-3697386098077241662011-10-05T07:43:43.180-04:002011-10-05T07:43:43.180-04:00What Pete said, first post of these comments.
Kru...What Pete said, first post of these comments.<br /><br />Krugmans criticisms are usually correct... It is like some kind of psycological projection of his own faults he does not want to face.Yohannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-73650148448715560422011-10-04T12:01:21.413-04:002011-10-04T12:01:21.413-04:00Way to miss the point entirely.Way to miss the point entirely.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-65506374944358585862011-10-04T03:16:24.477-04:002011-10-04T03:16:24.477-04:00Joe,
"No, the thrust of his post is to criti...Joe,<br /><br />"No, the thrust of his post is to criticism paranoid libertarians, not the praise a man who burned Atlanta to the ground."<br /><br />Yes because it would be absurd to point to a specific and infamous event in which the government used information it gathered through the census to brutally massacre its own citizens. Your right, that is a completely meaningless relation and the government would never do anything bad with the near limitless, and real time data it collects on its citizens now. <br /><br />If you really believe that I have this 30 million dollar bank account but the nigerian authorities wont let me access it, so can i have your bank account information so i can transfer it and pay you a generous transaction fee?ekeyrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17413110869433997820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-73507938754051360102011-10-03T16:56:04.223-04:002011-10-03T16:56:04.223-04:00No, the thrust of his post is to criticism paranoi...No, the thrust of his post is to criticism paranoid libertarians, not the praise a man who burned Atlanta to the ground.<br /><br />I'm not throwing a fit, I'm pointing out your dishonesty and your willingness to bend the truth to score rhretorical points. <br /><br />If you don't like being called out for lying then stop telling lies.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-87084136763922399892011-10-03T16:12:24.108-04:002011-10-03T16:12:24.108-04:00Joe, I think the thrust of that post is to praise ...Joe, I think the thrust of that post is to praise Sherman, or at least that is one of the themes. Give it up. You can disagree, but you are saying that I am wrong and unless that I admit what you want to hear -- that I am wrong (even though I don't think I am) -- that you are going to continue to throw fits. Give it up.William L. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-9832844650613281662011-10-03T13:35:44.855-04:002011-10-03T13:35:44.855-04:00Anderson,
I'm waiting to hear your response t...Anderson,<br /><br />I'm waiting to hear your response to my earlier post. The one where I point out where Krugman DOESN'T praise Sherman's march on Georgia, as you claim he does.<br /><br />Are you actually going to address this? Or just ignore it and wait for the next commenter (i.e. Roddis) to go off on a tangent and let you pretend I never pointed out your rhetorical double-talk.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-71121584188046674002011-10-03T12:47:25.873-04:002011-10-03T12:47:25.873-04:00Can we assume that that north's mastery of the...Can we assume that that north's mastery of the arts of peace and production to overcome more warlike adversaries included using bayonets on children's pets as the children looked on?<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/3ous49g<br /><br />Lew Rockwell suggested that it is the very prosperity created by liberal democracy that provides the wherewithal for empire.<br /><br />http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/08/26/lew-rockwell-15/<br /><br />How cool is that, Krugman?Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-82610887962419443262011-10-03T12:33:00.841-04:002011-10-03T12:33:00.841-04:00Joe left out the following quote from the same pos...Joe left out the following quote from the same post:<br /><br />Part of what has always fascinated me about the Civil War is that like World War II, it was a war in which the basically non-military culture of modern America — which at that point didn’t include the South — used its mastery of the arts of peace and production to overcome more warlike adversaries. <br /><br />http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/mapping-through-georgia/William L. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-25807709119635203072011-10-03T12:05:34.478-04:002011-10-03T12:05:34.478-04:00Let's compare what Krugman actually said about...Let's compare what Krugman actually said about Sherman to what you claim he said:<br /><br />Paul Krugman:<br /><br />"And I couldn’t help thinking of another cartography-Civil War story, the way Sherman used data from the 1860 Census to plan his March to the Sea, using county-level data to plot a route that would take him through areas with enough grain and livestock to feed his army. Oh, and sure enough, a Google search immediately turns up right-wing sites using Sherman’s March as a reason to oppose the Census."<br /><br />William Anderson:<br /><br />"Krugman was praising Sherman the other day for his Georgia march."<br /><br /><br />There is clearly no praise for Sherman's march on the South. You have intentionally misrepresented his words and twisted them to say something other than his original intent. <br /><br />I understand that this is your blog and you can say whatever you want, but the way you conduct yourself on this blog will determine your credibility. If we can't trust you not to misrepresent and misquote Krugman on the topic of Civil War history then how can we trust your statements regarding anything else?Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-4036768504981645812011-10-02T17:11:19.344-04:002011-10-02T17:11:19.344-04:00Some people just wont accept that krugman does a b...Some people just wont accept that krugman does a better job of discrediting himself than any of us can.ekeyrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17413110869433997820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-83374250936603660992011-10-02T13:14:50.418-04:002011-10-02T13:14:50.418-04:00No, I did not intentionally misrepresent Krugman. ...No, I did not intentionally misrepresent Krugman. Despite the fact that it is proven that the government employed the census in order to commit atrocities against its own citizens, Krugman thinks that criticizing it is silly. Krugman clearly does not think that what Sherman did was bad, as Krugman is the type of writer to say that such things are bad.<br /><br />If a guy is going to accuse someone of being concerned about inflation as being concerned ONLY because that person wants others to suffer, then he is not going to waste an opportunity to condemn others. Krugman did NOT say, "What Sherman did was bad, but I find it interesting that he used the census." Instead, he clearly implied that the use of the census against the South was a good thing.<br /><br />Look, if I really believed Krugman was against Sherman's actions, I would not have written what I did. Krugman is quite clear about his preference and his utter hatred for the South. I'm not putting words in the guy's mouth. Krugman supports genocide if he thinks it will promote Progressivism. He is that kind of person, like it or not.<br /><br />And he is not the only Progressive to endorse atrocities. Look at the many Progressives who endorsed Lenin and Stalin. Read Political Pilgrims by Paul Hollander and you will see what I mean. Krugman comes from a long line of Progressives who believe that people are nothing but putty to be shaped by the State.William L. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-68854145275992237412011-10-02T10:49:37.671-04:002011-10-02T10:49:37.671-04:00Way to miss the point of what I was saying.
I&#...Way to miss the point of what I was saying. <br /><br />I'm not talking about the friggin' census, I was using that as an example of how the author of this blog takes Krugman's words and intentionally misrepresents them. I was calling attention to a clear example of intellectual dishonesty by a man who is supposed to be a scholar and professor of economics.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-59608741630271920782011-10-02T01:01:06.903-04:002011-10-02T01:01:06.903-04:00"This is where you start to get silly. Krugma..."This is where you start to get silly. Krugman was pointing out the paranoia of modern day libertarians using Sherman's march on Georgia (almost 150 years ago) as a supporting argument for not participating in the census today."<br /><br />Roosevelt used census data to fill his internment camps with Japanese, Germans, and Italians. The State passes its evil tactics from one regime to another.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-14912688972098026972011-10-01T23:51:05.711-04:002011-10-01T23:51:05.711-04:00This is where you start to get silly. Krugman was...This is where you start to get silly. Krugman was pointing out the paranoia of modern day libertarians using Sherman's march on Georgia (almost 150 years ago) as a supporting argument for not participating in the census today.<br /><br />From that, you extrapolated that somehow Krugman approved of Sherman's destructive march on Georgia. Do you not see the tenuous connection between the Kruman's actual criticism of people today avoiding the census and your framing of this as Krugman's approval of a destructive military attack on the South? Are you really going to pretend that you didn't make a tremendous, and disingenuous leap of logic by linking these two concepts?Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-70073654636217512602011-10-01T23:19:42.317-04:002011-10-01T23:19:42.317-04:00Notice that Krugman then attacked some people for ...Notice that Krugman then attacked some people for saying that Sherman's use of the census (for purposes of war crimes -- and, face it, that is what they were) was a reason why people should not trust the census.<br /><br />When an employee of the U.S. Government uses the census as a means of committing war crimes, it makes sense that some people might blanch at that whole scenario. By attacking others, Krugman shows his support for Sherman. It could not be otherwise, for if Krugman did not support it, why would he have said what he said?<br /><br />Krugman in other posts has attacked the South, so please don't try to claim Krugman has no opinion of this.William L. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-74213326877791336732011-10-01T22:48:17.027-04:002011-10-01T22:48:17.027-04:00I assume you're referring to this post on Krug...I assume you're referring to this post on Krugman's blog:<br /><br />http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/mapping-through-georgia/<br /><br />In this post he notes Sherman's use of cartography in his march on Atlanta. There is no praise for Sherman in this post. He mentioned Sherman's use of cartography as a segue into another discussion of the Civil War in general. <br /><br />That you would twist this around and frame it as "praising Sherman...for his Georgia march" is intentionally misleading and clearly differs from Krugman's actual words. This is exactly the sort of rhetoric that dents your credibility.Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-68006897851064590372011-10-01T19:17:56.498-04:002011-10-01T19:17:56.498-04:00Scott Horton interviews the great Will Grigg who d...Scott Horton interviews the great Will Grigg who discusses why the American Dream is collapsing; the dollar’s rapid decline since leaving the (partial) gold standard in 1971; keeping the fiat currency game going by waging war – the biggest public works/jobs stimulus program imaginable; how the dollar’s reserve currency status, solidified by dollar denominated oil sales, has let the US expand its empire far beyond sustainability; and why economic troubles often prompt people to scapegoat minorities, rather than directing their anger toward the actual causes:<br /><br />http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/09/28/will-grigg-26/<br /><br />My "rhetoric" is tame compared to Mr. Grigg's frightening substance.<br /><br />Where is the substantive argument against our position that Keynesianism promotes war and the looting of the middle class? I'm quite sick of statists whining about the alleged "form" of our arguments without even understanding what the argument is.Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-85442206548278675852011-10-01T17:32:55.571-04:002011-10-01T17:32:55.571-04:00A highly-respected economist who taught for many y...A highly-respected economist who taught for many years on a ranked college faculty (he was not an "obscure" faculty member at a "podunk" university) wrote the following to me:<br /><br /><i>Krugman's an intellectual disgrace and, worse, a human disgrace, given his chronic dishonesty. In his eyes, everything reduces to the class war, which reduces to the Republican Party versus the Democratic Party. Even some politicians have a more honest outlook--which is about the most damning thing anyone might say about Krugman.</i><br /><br />When Krugman was praising Sherman the other day for his Georgia march, he forgot to add what Sherman believed about the Native Americans and Sherman's strategy for dealing with them. While Krugman was endorsing genocide, he failed to point out that Sherman's tactics did not stop with slaveowners (and people who did not own slaves).<br /><br />It always is interesting how Progressives will praise genocide when their own people do it. And, then he made fun of people who point out that maybe the census is not all good if the government can use it later to commit acts of barbarity against its own citizens. (Since the North did not recognize the Confederacy as a separate country, it had to then recognize Georgians as Americans.)<br /><br />So, I guess genocide is OK when it is done by Progressives. Guess it has something to do with "creating aggregate demand."William L. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-70812147943748740032011-10-01T17:13:08.471-04:002011-10-01T17:13:08.471-04:00Ha ha ha! They gave you a professorship for crying...Ha ha ha! They gave you a professorship for crying out loud! I never - repeat NEVER asked you to censor anyone's comments. But, if you are going to criticize Krugman for engaging in hyperbolic statements about people who disagree with him while also purporting yourself to be a public intellectual you have a responsibility to respond to those comments. Not DELETE them but respond.<br /><br />Instead your attitude was a lazy "like it or leave it." <br /><br />And can you really not tell the difference between criticism of one's argument that at times can get heated (e.g. your argument is ridiculous) and someone saying that you are "vile, evil, and leading to the end of civilization?" (from a lawyer no less!). <br /><br />The rest of your post is a reasoned response that I would gladly engage with as long as you don't think that my belief in aggregate outcomes and government intervention does not fundamentally make me an enemy of freedom or a totalitarian who supports SWAT teams taking your money.alaskamannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-14089685347078549652011-10-01T14:48:57.158-04:002011-10-01T14:48:57.158-04:00Alaska, I am really surprised that you are demandi...Alaska, I am really surprised that you are demanding that I censor "outrageous" statements. If I did that, I'd have to delete all of your posts, and that would not be fair.<br /><br />Krugman bases his views upon his version of "aggregate demand," and that version has remained somewhat consistent from Mandeville ("Fable of the Bees") through Malthus and Gesell, through Keynes, and now Krugman and Brad Delong. I believe that this is a wrongheaded view because it assumes that "demand" is something that government can create through monetary manipulation.<br /><br />Instead, I hold strongly to the Say's Law position (which drives LK nuts), and believe that the problems in the economy right now are due to the fact that government continues to try to prop up the massive malinvestments that got is to this state of affairs in the first place. For example, "Operation Twist" is nothing more than an attempt to pump up the housing market and to prevent the necessary price and output adjustments that must take place in order to have a real recovery.<br /><br />The Keynesian prescription is for government to shower the economy with money with hopes that people will spend it immediately. Keynesians also believe that as soon as government does this over a long period of time, or if it deluges the economy with new money, that new capital magically will appear and businesses will automatically invest.<br /><br />This is Pavlovian economics, and it assumes that individuals are pure stimulus-response and that business owners only react to what is happening now. I'm sorry, but I disagree. You may not like it, but that is the way I see it.William L. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-3097200855748900772011-10-01T13:49:28.807-04:002011-10-01T13:49:28.807-04:00Tax Home:
Austrian opponents refuse to familiariz...Tax Home:<br /><br />Austrian opponents refuse to familiarize themselves with basic Austrian concepts and thus never address them. Austrians know EVERYTHING about the Keynesians and all of the other statist belief systems. <br /><br />Rothbard explains Von Mises:<br /><br />http://mises.org/resources.aspx?Id=3081&html=1Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-84503532398820670852011-10-01T12:32:28.375-04:002011-10-01T12:32:28.375-04:00Professor Anderson, this is one of the most entert...Professor Anderson, this is one of the most entertaining posts I have seen on your blog. Great job! <br /><br />But alas it does not solve the problem.<br /><br />I still feel that you are correct part of the time and Krugman is correct part of the time. This can be seen in the comments. Intellegent sensible people are polorized by their beliefs.<br /><br />It is exactly like religious beliefs. It is impossible to make progess toward a solution in looking at what you feel is "right". Of course you feel that all of your religious beliefs are correct.<br /><br />It is the same with economic dogma. I don't use the term "dogma" in a negative way. Just as a matter of fact. <br /><br />The only way to further economic discussion is to decide what you and the Keynesians have in common and then argue about that.<br /><br />Of course this will never happen. <br /><br />So it becomes pure entertainment. <br /><br />Thank you I love Krugman bashing.Tax Homehttp://www.incometaxhome.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-73789326300794415992011-10-01T02:45:21.675-04:002011-10-01T02:45:21.675-04:00Alaska jackass,
Why is it that america was hardl...Alaska jackass, <br /><br />Why is it that america was hardly the first or the only country to have to come to terms with slavery, yet it was the only nation that slaughtered half a million of its own citizens to do so?<br /><br />Also ww2 was an inevitable consequence of crushing reperations placed on germany after the first world war. A war that could have only been financed by the newly created federal reserve. So when bob says these policies have destroyed civilization throughout history there is no hyperbole in his statements. <br /><br />I have little faith in your ability to process this information analytically so feel free to come up with some names for me and never address any of the actual issues. Oh and keep talking about how professor anderson is pathetic for not taking a stand for civility and deleting your ignorant drivel, while krugman basks in his glorious echo chamber.ekeyrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17413110869433997820noreply@blogger.com