tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post3784813802138903703..comments2024-03-12T08:15:56.379-04:00Comments on Krugman-in-Wonderland: Just Who is Funding What?William L. Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802990642236807359noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-75411130856982731062010-09-09T13:43:32.826-04:002010-09-09T13:43:32.826-04:00To get the facts on this, please visit www.kochfac...To get the facts on this, please visit www.kochfacts.com.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13366548419872141340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-5242112929501628152010-08-31T12:05:19.860-04:002010-08-31T12:05:19.860-04:00TRR: what have you learned from our own Gilded age...TRR: what have you learned from our own Gilded age, which predated the progressive age? The Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Astors, the Mellons, the Morgans?<br /><br />I have learned that they used the "progressive" era, to create a business-government alliance. Mussolini called it Fascism, but it could be known as Corporatism. <br />"<br /><br />Then I think maybe you should hit your history books a little harder. Take a look at TR, the Sherman anti-trust act, and the end of the Gilded Age.<br /><br />The more personally insulting you become, the more I realize the end of your intellectual contributions are near.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-24371808326310351702010-08-31T12:00:13.025-04:002010-08-31T12:00:13.025-04:00TRR:
Do you actually read your sources?
"...TRR:<br /><br />Do you actually read your sources?<br /><br /><br /><br />"<br />From Upton Sinclair. "The Condemned-Meat Industry," Everybody's Magazine. 14 (1906). 608-616.<br /><br />"I saw six hogs in a line which had been condemned. A truck loaded with chopped-up condemned hogs was, in my presence (I followed it), placed in one of the tanks from which lard comes. I asked particularly about this, and the inspector, together with Mr. Hull, stated that lard and fertilizer would be the product from that tank. The tanks are in a long room. The east side is lined with tanks for manufacture of lard and fertilizer; the west side with tanks whose product is grease and fertilizer. The grease is for soap, lubricator, etc. Here is a clear infraction of the law, because it requires that such condemned meat be mixed with sufficient offal to destroy it as food. Of the six condemned hogs referred to, two were afflicted with cholera, the skin being red as blood and the legs scabbed; three were marked 'tubercular,' though they appeared normal to a layman; the sixth had an ulcer in its side which was apparent. Two men were engaged in chopping up hogs from this line. The truck-load prepared while I stood there was deposited in a lard tank. I asked particularly about the line of demarcation between the carcasses used for lard and carcasses used for grease. No explanation was given either by the inspector or by my conductor. 'It all depends on how bad he is,' was the answer. I gathered the impression, however, that not very many carcasses were placed in grease tanks." <br />"<br /><br />"<br />"For ten years I was employed by Philip D. Armour, the great Chicago beef packer and canner. I rose from a common beef skinner to the station of superintendent of the beef-killing gang, with 500 men directly under me. . . .<br /><br />"There were so many ways of getting around the inspectors--so many, in fact, that not more than two or three cattle out of one thousand were condemned. I know exactly what I am writing of in this connection, as my particular instructions from Mr. W. E. Pierce, superintendent of the beef houses for Armour & Co., were very explicit and definite.<br /><br />"Whenever a beef got past the yard inspectors with a case of lumpy jaw and came into the slaughterhouse or the "killing-bed," I was authorized by Mr. Pierce to take his head off, thus removing the evidences of lumpy jaw, and after casting the smitten portion into the tank where refuse goes, to send the rest of the carcass on its way to market.<br /><br />"In cases where tuberculosis became evident to the men who were skinning the cattle it was their duty, on instructions from Mr. Pierce, communicated to them through me, at once to remove the tubercles and cast them into a trap-door provided for that purpose.<br /><br />"I have seen as much as forty pounds of flesh afflicted with gangrene cut from the carcass of a beef, in order that the rest of the animal might be utilized in trade. . . . <br />"<br /><br />Nice try. No dice. In fact, interesting how your source says just the opposite of what Sinclair said. <br /><br />I see what you mean, though, about the failure of the American public education system.<br /><br />Yours in truth,<br /><br />Mr. P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-41979963694697031242010-08-31T11:54:50.271-04:002010-08-31T11:54:50.271-04:00TRR: what have you learned from our own Gilded age...TRR: what have you learned from our own Gilded age, which predated the progressive age? The Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Astors, the Mellons, the Morgans?<br /><br />I have learned that they used the "progressive" era, to create a business-government alliance. Mussolini called it Fascism, but it could be known as Corporatism. Do yo have anything to offer but de-bunked generalities?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-3140126667771692812010-08-31T11:51:53.983-04:002010-08-31T11:51:53.983-04:00@Bob Roddis:
Yep. Continue not to engage, or to ...@Bob Roddis:<br /><br />Yep. Continue not to engage, or to have AP Lerner engage for you, answering both sides of the questions he poses.<br /><br />Say something meaningful. <br /><br />Try not to use ad hominem in your response. I know this will be difficult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-72741205690573655262010-08-31T11:50:40.034-04:002010-08-31T11:50:40.034-04:00http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/government-regulati...http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/government-regulation-the-truth-about-quot-the-jungle-quot-by-upton-sinclairAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-39828919224311023932010-08-31T11:50:07.295-04:002010-08-31T11:50:07.295-04:00Dear Communist,
Here your deal about Sinclair. I...Dear Communist,<br /><br />Here your deal about Sinclair. It is not from Mises, and the author has cited your precious sources that you rail on about. Of course if it was about "Climate Change" none would be needed. <br /><br />Have a nice time pinko.<br />TRRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-7786422550958456872010-08-31T10:45:40.061-04:002010-08-31T10:45:40.061-04:00The aforementioned Raimondo article is excellent. ...The aforementioned Raimondo article is excellent. As I've said for 37 years, our critics are truly clueless. Just as Austrian critics have no understanding of the centrality of economic calculation, libertarian critics have no understanding of the differences between Rothbardians, Hayekians, the Koch family etc....<br /><br />They only need to speak a few words and their ignorance becomes obvious.Bob Roddisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-78734635359383340732010-08-31T09:45:17.347-04:002010-08-31T09:45:17.347-04:00"
Have something against the JBS?
"
Onl..."<br />Have something against the JBS?<br />"<br /><br />Only the McCarthyite parts. <br /><br />And the stands against the Civil Rights Act.<br /><br />Unless you're thinking McCarthy was just a misunderstood patriot.<br /><br />Mr. P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-80802972679706816922010-08-31T09:38:20.952-04:002010-08-31T09:38:20.952-04:00"
Of course one of the best Soviet industries..."<br />Of course one of the best Soviet industries in the US. Is the rotten, monopolized educational system. It burns through a great deal of money, into the 100s of billions of dollars, nationwide, and it's finished product. Well do I even need to comment on it? <br />"<br /><br />If it were as good as the Soviet system ... we wouldn't be having this discussion, on at least two levels ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-82743385133036447802010-08-31T09:25:45.637-04:002010-08-31T09:25:45.637-04:00@7:51:
"
"Unchecked capitalism tends to...@7:51:<br /><br />"<br />"Unchecked capitalism tends towards monopoly."<br /><br />This is a blatant falsehood. It is painfully obvious.<br />"<br /><br />TRR: what have you learned from our own Gilded age, which predated the progressive age? The Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Astors, the Mellons, the Morgans?<br /><br />I think this is where your ideology gets in the way of the facts. Open your eyes a little wider, and let the knowledge seep in.<br /><br />Regards, Mr. P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-72815657917488213592010-08-31T09:12:08.290-04:002010-08-31T09:12:08.290-04:00@ 7:14pm
"
Oh it's in the times so it mu...@ 7:14pm<br /><br />"<br />Oh it's in the times so it must be true not! First I highly doubt that this is a nationwide phenomenon. <br />"<br /><br />First thing must be deny the messenger.<br /><br />OK. Google is your friend.<br /><br />"<br />Egg Kingpin Linked to Salmonella Scare Has History of Violations<br />"<br /><br />"<br />The egg mogul linked to the widespread salmonella outbreak is considered by government officials a repeat offender, and the allegations and violations at his farms go far beyond sanitation to illegal immigration, unsafe workplace conditions and sexual abuse of female employees.<br /><br />Though the recent recall is the first time conditions at his farms have drawn such heated and nationwide scrutiny, Austin "Jack" DeCoster has been cited for violations dating back at least to the early 1990s. <br />"<br /><br />http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/24/egg-kingpin-linked-salmonella-scare-history-violations/<br /><br />Does it help you that I cite Fox News? <br /><br />Funny you bring up Upton Sinclair. I brought up the Pure Food and Drug act on another blog, and I got the same story back: Upton Sinclair later admitted that it wasn't based in fact. I challenged him to find me a cite. <br /><br />He could not.<br /><br />I give you the same challenge. Show me a cite where Upton Sinclair later recanted his story.<br />(and not the mises.org source you've probably lifted this from).<br /><br />In fact, when TR sent Federal inspectors in, they found that conditions were actually *worse* than those contained in the book. <br /><br />The result was the Pure Food and Drug Act.<br /><br />This is just one of the areas I think Libertarians give a little too much credit to the "free market". <br /><br />Examples abound and are almost too numerous to mention (did I already mention an oil platform in the Gulf?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-63035678275334406462010-08-30T22:51:53.844-04:002010-08-30T22:51:53.844-04:00"Unchecked capitalism tends towards monopoly...."Unchecked capitalism tends towards monopoly."<br /><br />This is a blatant falsehood. It is painfully obvious. The more an industry is progressively managed, and regulated by government the more monopolistic, or oligarchic it becomes. Healthcare, Banking, the Airlines, Power, and Pharmaceuticals just to name a few are some most heavily regulated, and therefore centralized industries in our economy. Not surprisingly they feature all the earmarks of inefficient operations. High prices, few competitors, and high barriers to entry based on the regulatory hoops they have anykind of competition would have to jump through. <br />Of course one of the best Soviet industries in the US. Is the rotten, monopolized educational system. It burns through a great deal of money, into the 100s of billions of dollars, nationwide, and it's finished product. Well do I even need to comment on it? <br />Regards<br />TRRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-20045110861572042482010-08-30T22:30:28.871-04:002010-08-30T22:30:28.871-04:00I've read this piece, and although it starts p...I've read this piece, and although it starts pretty huffy and puffy, it does get down to substance. (though I do wonder why he avoids mentioning the John Birch Society?)<br /><br />Have something against the JBS? At the last event I went too. I went to the thing with my East Indian friend Mehul, and my Hispanic friend Fernando. I know you wanna paint it as some kind of right wing, racist organization, but those are the facts. I am not a formal member but I have friends that are. My problem with them is the spend too much time, dealing with immigration issues, and not enough on the issue of the day, which is the ghastly foreign policy of the US Gunverment, which they oppose but not vigorously enough. <br />My best<br />TRRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-81035273972777380992010-08-30T22:14:13.705-04:002010-08-30T22:14:13.705-04:00Oh it's in the times so it must be true not! F...Oh it's in the times so it must be true not! First I highly doubt that this is a nationwide phenomenon. <br />If you know anything about the chicken business, you would probably know that it is mainly a regional business. In my neck of the woods, it is mostly contracted farms supplying eggs, chickens, etc, to packaging outfits like Perdue, Tyson, Morning Star Farms, etc. I have been a half dozen of these processing plants which are located in along the Delmarva peninsula, the Shenandoah Valley in VA, and the Dutch Country of PA. Most of the plants were maintained in good condition, and the growers are to maintain standards if they are maintain their relationship, and hence their income with the companies. Despite what you were taught at Karl Marx University, it is not in a firms best interest to create tainted food, usually firms that continue do that are put out of business, FDA or no FDA. <br />Of course the history of the FDA is tainted, based on lies, distortions, and sensationalism. Based on a novel "The Jungle" from the socialist loser Upton Sinclair, who admitted later it wasn't based on any factual basis. But Teddy Roosevelt saw an opportunity to consolidate a good portion of food industry. And like the Tammany Hall pol he was. The statist, progressive TR didn't let a good crisis go to waste. Nope there is a reason, much of the food business has become an oligarchy for such power houses such as ADM, Monsanto, and Cargill. And it's called the FDA. And to be honest I have had eggs the last two mornings for breakfast, at two different establishments, and I feel great. <br />Respectfully submitted,<br />TRRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-86714256857355075982010-08-30T21:09:03.262-04:002010-08-30T21:09:03.262-04:00And just when I was about to leave you ... I run a...And just when I was about to leave you ... I run across this.<br /><br />You wonder why I think we need effective government, and that the free market doesn't always act in my best interests?<br /><br />Enjoy your eggs tomorrow morning.<br /><br />https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/business/31eggs.html?_r=1&hp<br /><br />"<br />Barns infested with flies, maggots and scurrying rodents, and overflowing manure pits were among the widespread food safety problems that federal inspectors found at a group of Iowa egg farms at the heart of a nationwide recall and salmonella outbreak.<br /><br />Inspection reports released by the Food and Drug Administration on Monday described — often in nose-pinching detail — possible ways that salmonella could have been spread undetected through the vast complexes of two companies. <br />"<br /><br />“That is not good management, bottom line,” said Kenneth E. Anderson, a professor of poultry science at North Carolina State University. “I am surprised that an operation was being operated in that manner in this day and age.” <br /><br />He's surprised?<br /><br />I'm not.<br /><br />Nytol.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-18492269204506588972010-08-30T20:54:50.125-04:002010-08-30T20:54:50.125-04:00Folks:
I'm happy to read your sources at all ...Folks:<br /><br />I'm happy to read your sources at all times. If they get sufficiently loony, I will stop. I watch Olbermann and Maddow only occasionally, and mostly for the humor value. I can't stomach Fox. I'm sorry. I've tried, and I can't. It's too transparent. There isn't much in the way of "news" or "analysis" coming from cable. Unless it's Stewart or Colbert. And that really says something about our culture when it's the comedians that are getting it right.<br /><br />I've read this piece, and although it starts pretty huffy and puffy, it does get down to substance. (though I do wonder why he avoids mentioning the John Birch Society?)<br /><br />And since dissecting these things takes time, I will report back as time permits. I spent most of the entire day here for no apparent reason, and now the piper must be paid ...<br /><br />There are things that progressives and libertarians have in common: anti-militarism, considering the war on drugs as a failure, support for civil liberties, equal rights for all, market processes, and the elimination of corporate welfare.<br /><br />Where we disagree are the effectiveness of the free market in maintaining rights and civil liberties, and on taxes. We believe in a government that is an effective counterveiling force to business, because we've seen how business can be antithetical to freedom.<br /><br />We might agree with you that if a truly free market existed with robust competition this would not be true, but we're smart enough to know such a thing only occurs in theory, not in practice. Unchecked capitalism tends towards monopoly.<br /><br />But most of all, we believe that money is a coercive force in politics, and if corporate coffers and the rich speak, then for the most part, it will be corporations and the rich dictating policy. This, I believe is the ultimate insult to democracy, and to the large majority that make up the working class of this country.<br /><br />I would like to see publicly funded elections, and NO special interest money, from any side. Only individuals up to a specific amount. One time during a cycle.<br /><br />I'm not sure what libertarians believe.<br /><br />Mr. P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-38456099720613637862010-08-30T19:29:55.504-04:002010-08-30T19:29:55.504-04:00Justin Raimondo has a good handle on this. He has...Justin Raimondo has a good handle on this. He has no love lost for the Koch's. <br /><br />http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/08/29/in-defense-of-the-kochtopus/<br /><br />Of course Mr. Progressive, won't be bothered to read anything that doesn't fit into his little con-lib paradigm box, that is not pre-approved, by Maddow, Oberman, or the Daily Kos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-44739164644384396642010-08-30T18:05:53.158-04:002010-08-30T18:05:53.158-04:00@jason:
Tell me what you disagree with:
http://w...@jason:<br /><br />Tell me what you disagree with:<br /><br />http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0928-16.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-1566555820314168962010-08-30T17:58:26.686-04:002010-08-30T17:58:26.686-04:00Jason:
Reader's Digest version:
How does Sor...Jason:<br /><br />Reader's Digest version:<br /><br />How does Soros personally benefit from bankrolling the left?<br /><br />I know how the Kochs and the Murdochs benefit from bankrolling the right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-80967005070294237882010-08-30T17:56:33.605-04:002010-08-30T17:56:33.605-04:00And Godwin's law now is satisfied.
Fascist, S...And Godwin's law now is satisfied.<br /><br />Fascist, Socialist, and Nazi?<br /><br />Wow. That sounds Pretty Bad. <br /><br />I hope you get to ask God about that Brother's Keeper thing. <br /><br />I'm sure she can set you straight.<br /><br />http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=NIVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-45175595837507279852010-08-30T17:56:06.263-04:002010-08-30T17:56:06.263-04:00Great discussion, but let's not lose sight of ...Great discussion, but let's not lose sight of the original topic, which is that Krugman is a hypocrite for complaining about the bankrolling of right wing causes while neglecting to mention that George Soros bankrolls huge swathes of the left. David Horowitz's book "The Shadow Party" is an excellent investigation into the mind numbing scope of Soros' financial influence in the leftist cause.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-10097947041623068282010-08-30T17:42:16.958-04:002010-08-30T17:42:16.958-04:00And you wonder why people edge away from you on th...And you wonder why people edge away from you on the subway?<br /><br />Who would take a stinky, smelly, government owned subway. Yuck! Maybe a bus, if it has good AC, and definitely my SUV. <br /><br />Please reconsider that island. I think it would do you good. <br /><br />You should consider an island named Cuba. It has no racism (so they say), free health care, and a wonderfully run economy. Just don't get on the wrong side of this dude Fidel. He's progressive I hear, but not that progressive. <br /><br />Please also sign your SS checks back to the Treasury when you get them.<br />Once they pay me back the 15 pts they stole from me over my whole working life. I might consider this. Again seriously I doubt I will be around to collect. If I am I still plan to be working. <br /><br />With thanks from a grateful nation. <br />I owe nothing to nobody, that I don't have some kind of relationship with. I will never worship this country like some kind of deity. I owe my country nothing, and they owe my nothing. My rights come from God. You have some perverted idea they come from government. Which is way this is a hollow statement from you:<br /><br />"At least progressives have the decency to respect ALL human lives, not just the lives of rich white men." <br /><br />How rich, to say something like this. But then to be a cheerleader for the state, and it's central bank that finances the murder of brown people the world over. <br />You're a fascist, and a socialist, and would have made a good Nazi. You would have went along with the program. You're an enabler, and you believe the state should reign over the individual. You redcoat. Get out of America <br /><br />Now I am really done. <br /><br />The Always Right RadicalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-16597374989980805202010-08-30T17:23:50.129-04:002010-08-30T17:23:50.129-04:00"
The guys in charge of Goldman-Sachs have to..."<br />The guys in charge of Goldman-Sachs have to be deported out of the country with only the shirts on their backs, and the banks assets seized, and sold off.<br />There are some other NGOs in other industries I would do this to too. I wouldn't dare to call them companies, or corporations. Since they are nothing without their subsidies, taken from the mouths of labor. They are not capitalist, and I think they need to be disgraced. <br />"<br /><br />Scratch a libertarian, get a socialist?<br /><br />Gee, Toto. We're not in Kansas anymore ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6276561747841568697.post-63926407381580567662010-08-30T17:11:33.873-04:002010-08-30T17:11:33.873-04:00@ 2:02
Good night, sweet prince.
Please reconsid...@ 2:02<br /><br />Good night, sweet prince.<br /><br />Please reconsider that island. I think it would do you good.<br /><br />Please also sign your SS checks back to the Treasury when you get them. <br /><br />With thanks from a grateful nation.<br /><br />The Dude (abides).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com